Curse

Sefk · Mar 12, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Ram requirements are both the same actually.

512 Meg for minimum, 1 Gb for recommended. I just looked at both my WoW box and NF and they both say that.

I said Guild Wars (released in 2005):

Quote:

What are the system requirements for Guild Wars?

Minimum System Specs:

* Windows XP/2000/ME/98
* Intel Pentium III 800 Mhz or equivalent
* 256 MB RAM
* CD-ROM Drive
* 2 GB Available HDD Space
* ATI Radeon 8500 or GeForce 3 or 4 MX Series Video Card with 32MB of VRAM
* 16-bit Sound Card
* Internet connection
* Keyboard and mouse

Recommended System Specs:

* Windows XP/2000/ME/98
* Intel Pentium III 1GHz or equivalent
* 512 MB RAM
* CD-ROM Drive
* 2 GB Available HDD Space
* ATI Radeon 9000 or GeForce 4 Ti Series Video Card with 64MB of VRAM
* 16-bit Sound Card
* Internet connection
* Keyboard and mouse

http://www.guildwars.com/products/gu...es/default.php

Quote:

What are the system requirements for classic World of Warcraft?

Minimum System Requirements*

Windows® System 2000/XP OS:

* Intel Pentium® III 800 MHz or AMD Athlon 800 MHz
* 512 MB or more of RAM
* 32 MB 3D graphics card with Hardware Transform and Lighting, such as NVIDIA® GeForce™ 2 class card or above
* DirectX® 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers
* 6.0 GB available HD space
* 4x CD-ROM drive
* A 56k or better Internet connection

Mac® OS X 10.3.9:

* 933 MHz or higher G4, or G5, or Intel processor
* 512 MB RAM or higher; DDR RAM recommended
* ATI or NVIDIA® video hardware with 32 MB VRAM or more
* 6.0 GB available HD space
* 4x CD-Rom drive
* 56k or better Internet connection

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/faq/technology.html

WOW do support Mac thou.

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Yea I cant find my GW prophecies box though. But I'm sure it wouldnt work very well on 256 meg, regardless of what the box says.

The graphics card differences are a lot more significant though, as I pointed out, ram is cheap, graphics cards are not.

Adding more ram to a system is the cheapest and easiest upgrade you can do for a PC. And you can keep your old ram whereas you would need to do away with an old graphics card.

Sefk · Mar 12, 2008, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yea I cant find my GW prophecies box though. But I'm sure it wouldnt work very well on 256 meg, regardless of what the box says.

And some people have runned wow on some box with lower than min required ram/cpu.

But, the problem of this WHOLE topic is still there: comparison of two things with wrong criterias.

Graphics don't count. Diablo 2 has shittier graphics than Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of time and Half Life 2. However those 3 games are all excellent game.

Grind doesn't count, since it's not every game that has grind if we take Wikipedia's definition.

The first good criteria imo, when you compare two games, is which game offer more at a specific time (since price change with time). And if we use a little bit of common sense, it's clear that gw has more to offer to the casual player (like 2-4 hours per week). With wow, the more you play per month, the more you will receive for your money since wow should have more end game contents. Now we have to determine at which point both game are equal.

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sefk

Grind doesn't count, since it's not every game that has grind if we take Wikipedia's definition.

Grind in other MMO's to develop your character and get rewarding new items is actually fun. Grind in GW to gain nothing but meaningless titles isnt.

And before you say 'The grind is optional', what is there left to do in GW after finishing every campain?

Grind going epic going GRINDFEST!!!

I would really wish that people that complain about fun 'grind' in a usuall RPG could just go play an 8 hour long FPS instead that they can pay £30 and finish it in a day and think 'Wow! a whole days entertainment for £30, that was amazing'. I'll stick to typical RPG's which offer far more gameplay for my money. GW is really a funny game. I really do not think of it as an RPG at all. it is more like a 3D action based platform game. Take Sonic the hedgehog, add three dimensions, put in lots of skills and add some RPG peatures like EXP, inventory and items. Yay, we have Guild Wars!

Guild Wars is fun yes, but it no where near as good as a decent RPG like Elder Scrolls, Lotro or Baldurs Gate.

WoW on the other hand took all the best features that make RPG's great fun, and put them all together. They created one of the best ever RPG games on the PC's, and you only need to look at the critical reviews to see just how good it is.

Players that dont like WoW shouldnt actually like any other RPG on the market. Guild Wars however is ok because it isnt a real RPG anyway.

Sefk · Mar 12, 2008, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Grind in other MMO's to develop your character and get rewarding new items is actually fun. Grind in GW to gain nothing but meaningless titles isnt.

And before you say 'The grind is optional', what is there left to do in GW after finishing every campain?

Grind going epic going GRINDFEST!!!

PVP? (now we has to discuss about is pvp a grind or not and blabla)

But grind is not a criteria for games in general.

You're right in saying that in most MMO, there is an inevitable part of grind. However, since grind is to do something repetitively to optimize the result and since repetitive is a very, but very subjective criteria, it's not a good idea to based a comparison on it. We have to admit subjective criteria, but something "repetitive" is hard know: is doing all quest repetitive? Theorically yes, since you are repeating an action: doing quests. But it may also not be repetition and bla and bla and bla....

The problem with grind: is when the time required to achieve a goal is too much for ones patience. And it seems that Korean have crazy endurance.

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sefk

PVP? (now we has to discuss about is pvp a grind or not and blabla)

I dont enjoy PVP. I used to play it and got up to R7, but found the majority (80-90%) of other players to be incompetent pricks.

When they temporailly allowed H/H teams in HA after NF came out, I had a few week of heaven. I got to halls twice with a full run of 5 or 6 consecs with a R0, 0 fame monk who had all the skills unlocked and could actually heal really good. That was just the most fun blast I ever had in my 2.5 years of guildwars. I even beat a few top 100 guilds while I were at it.

Then when I try to join a R6+ pug, it just fails miserably. I were temporarilly in a HA/GVG blood spike guild during prophecies and factions that I enjoyed and was full of some good players. They mainly used blood spike, but tried just about everything. Once when the GVG ladder was frozen, we even rolled a full team of 8 Wammos for GVG and surprisingly won 3 and lost 4 unranked matches!

But for some reason that guild disbanded and I never found another PVP guild that was free from elitism and 'OMG you suck /kick'. So I went back to PVE guilds and worked my way up to high end ones. I carried on doing a bit of HA, but just mainly gimmick builds during double fame events.

The problem is that the majority of players in GW well and truly suck and make both PVE and PVP a complete pain to play. it is far more enjoyable to play it solo. This isnt the fault of the players however, but really the game design and how that if someone has the wrong skills, they are going to fail.

I much prefer WoW and Lotro where everything just works, you take another player(s) and unlike in GW they arent a burden compared to solo play.

Bring back farming fame points with heroes and I would love to play PVP again (with heroes yes

)

Even just a TA like 4v4 hero arena for glad points would be awesome.

Yes I know we have Hero battles, but all that capture the flag shit well and truly sucks.

GW just tries to do everything, and while it gets it right for elitist and hardcore players, it misses out on the Fun aspect for me personally.

And you cant say that the fame title track isnt grind. I have not seen anything in any MMO or game that requires as much grind as the fame title does in GW.

Lawrence Chang · Mar 12, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I think the real reason people knock WoW is because of the subscription fee. Sorry, i just don't like paying for a game I already bought. That said, I have played WoW and GW. Yes, both games appeal to different groups of people. However, I believe WoW is a much better game. Games are meant for fun. Yes, Grind can be boring, but do you really want to breeze through a game that fast after spending $XX on it. Which brings me back to my original point. Grind=Time, and since your paying for the time, people think that it is just a waste of time. However, people wouldn't pay for a game that isn't fun. Hence, the 6million+ subscribers to WoW.

In GW, there are a majority of players that don't even leave town anymore. After level 20, most people feel that L.A is their home. Sitting in front of the computer waiting for good deals/sales. Why not ask Anet to have infinite levels? Its simple, after level 20, for everytime you gain another skill point(not attribute points), your level goes up by one.

In WoW, you actually have to work towards something. The problem with GW is that at this moment, it caters mostly to PvE, and doesn't even do a good job at that. Sorry, way too bland. Green=Uniques? Really? Whats so unique about them? Their name? Weapon skins determine prices? "Elite" Armor costing 15k when they do just as good as Droks 1k Armor? Amor Customization? Come on! The problem is that there is too little variety that the "best" items can be so easily obtained.

If..

GW required 15$/month...

WoW>GW.

Most people play this game because there are no subscription fees.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 12, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I checked out WoW but decided I couldn't play it because it was so ugly. Yes, I know it's shallow of me, but low production values do put me off games.

For me the monthly fee wasn't the decider, it just lowered the threshhold for me to try GW.

Aera Lure · Mar 12, 2008, 01:56 AM // 01:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I checked out WoW but decided I couldn't play it because it was so ugly. Yes, I know it's shallow of me, but low production values do put me off games.

For me the monthly fee wasn't the decider, it just lowered the threshhold for me to try GW.

Exactly. This was me as well. I would have paid a monthly fee for WoW and possibly never even had tried GW if I got past WoW's graphical style and liked the gameplay (dont know if I would have, as like I say, I never even got that far).

Dont get me wrong. A game could go back to sprite animations in 2D and, if I liked the style, and then got into the gameplay, I'd have been happy playing it. I still play Genesis era games from time to time. WoW's style completely turns me off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawrence Chang

Most people play this game because there are no subscription fees.

Maybe, but it didnt factor into it at all for me.

Inde · Mar 12, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I checked out WoW but decided I couldn't play it because it was so ugly. Yes, I know it's shallow of me, but low production values do put me off games.

For me the monthly fee wasn't the decider, it just lowered the threshhold for me to try GW.

Which is funny because I actually love the look of WoW. It's not the same cookie-cutter "realistic" computer graphics that I've been seeing for the past 4 years on every MMO in production. It appealed to me solely for that reason.

Redfeather1975 · Mar 12, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I've said this before, Guild Wars is a game with little grind.

Instant travel, ease of leveling, no level limit on gear or skills, monsters only scaling in power so far so that once you reach 20 you are free to tackle everything in the game in any order.

But... where there is grind, it is poorly designed.
I do not have confidence that Anet knows how to make a game with longevity. It wasn't their original goal, and when they altered it to lean that way, they began to fail.

Nyree · Mar 12, 2008, 02:43 AM // 02:43

I can't understand why some people assume that something is not fun for everybody just because they don't that thing fun. Don't try to tell me that GW is less fun than WoW or Everquest or any other game just because you like them more. It can be less fun for you but not for everybody.

GW is my favorite RPG of all, and the main reason is not because it is free, it is because GW is different from all the others RPGs, because it does not follow the same old RPG formula about leveling and grinding. I like it because what defines a better player than other here is your inteligence to make builds and your ability to play them, and not your time spent to be higher level than another player and your time spent to get a ubber equipament better than other players equipaments.
It doesn't matter how much someone try to argue about title grinding and pvxwiki and observer mode making things easier, even with all the things helping the players you can find people that can't make builds on their own, that are stuck in a mission because they are not clever enough to make builds to counter the monsters there, people that copy builds but don't know how to use it and ever rank 10 Norn title playing ursan very badly.

But that is just me.

Zinger314 · Mar 12, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Exactly. This was me as well. I would have paid a monthly fee for WoW and possibly never even had tried GW if I got past WoW's graphical style and liked the gameplay (dont know if I would have, as like I say, I never even got that far).

Dont get me wrong. A game could go back to sprite animations in 2D and, if I liked the style, and then got into the gameplay, I'd have been happy playing it. I still play Genesis era games from time to time. WoW's style completely turns me off.

Are you one of those people who thought Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker sucked because it was cel-shaded?

I agree with Inde about the graphics. WoW has a much more aestetic appeal, while GW is just nature, nature, and nature.

Also, GW chokes my computer just to get it to run at a good graphical level (I guess that's what happens when your GPU has 64 MB VRAM.)

Redfeather1975 · Mar 12, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

I found that the graphics in both games don't deviate enough in style. I got bored of the style of both within months. Same with the sound too.
Can't stand combat sounds in GW and WoW anymore. They drive me nuts.

Improvavel · Mar 12, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I've been playing blizzard games since warcraft 2.

When I got tired of warcraft 3 and dota (mod for wc3), I had 3 boxes in my hand- 1 WoW box and 1 prophecies and 1 factions on the other.

Why did I take GW?

Cause I knew it was level limited and not item based.

This means that I can be a level 20 warrior with a crappy short sword and buckler and 1k armor or a level 20 warrior with a crystalline sword (and I dont like that skin, prefer a fellblade or more realistic swords like longsword) and obsidian armor with a torment shield, and what I can achieve depends on the selection of my skills, the usage I give them and the battlefield decisions I take.

Sure, in WoW, the decisions and the way u use ur skills determine if u are good or not, but you need to be lvl 60 to kill lvl 60 area monsters.

Sure u also need to achieve lvl 20 in GW to take on the harder areas, but its very fast when compared, and the grind to get the equipment is rather small.

This extra free time means, isntead of being stuck with one or 2 characters, you can play completely different characters, and each of those characters have loads of different playstyles, that can be switched in 5 minutes or less, to start with.

So while, yes GW doesnt have that much high-end content, you can do it from at least 10 different perspectives.

Saying that, yes, GW need more high-end content and less "learn ur character" content.

So that is what GW players have- the opportunity to play in a field that wont make u more powerful because z player can spend x more time playing than y player and will allow u to experiment the game from different perspectives.

And if you want to grind, nothing prevents you from spending 300 hours farming for that shinny expensive armor or skin, or maybe that cute mini pet, or to be able to get a skill that is slighty more powerful, but wont make u better or more desirable because most pve skills arent necessary and those that seem so, like "There is nothing to fear" and "save yourselves" are useful and usable with very low amounts if grinding.

And lets not forget, GW players, enjoy what probably still is the best PvP in online rpgs.

I just hope Anet, especially considering some had Bnet experience, dont throw away all good they have done and try to rediscover the wheel.

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Time to try Lotro then?

P.S love the new avatar redfeather.

@ Nyree I also enjoy the skill aspect of GW to a certain point. That point is that I can only use 3 heroes and the rest of my team has to be filled with sucky henchmen. In any other MMORPG I am not disadvantaged in any way if I choose to play solo.

Also if you like GW1 because it is different to other RPGs, are you really going to like GW2 when it is literally just copying other RPGs?

Fast travel is required in GW because every area is designed in such a way that you cant travel through it. Other games that rely on adventure based gameplay allow you to travel along main roads and even use horses and in wow griffons for fast travel. GW truly has no sense of adventure at all. You just run around and kill things for the main story line, and thats pretty much it.

Adventure is a very powerful aspect of RPGs that GW misses out on. For example, Gandalf didnt just double click on the Mordor icon on his map, fast travel there and drop the one ring into the volcano.

I still could never class GW as an RPG. It has absolutely no RPG quality to it at all. It is however an immensely fun skill based action adventure with some role playing elements, but it is far from what an actuall RPG offers in terms of gameplay. Is sonic the hedgehog an RPG because I role play sonic? No it is not. There is no character development or adventure in GW, therefore no it is not a real RGP.

draxynnic · Mar 12, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

You know, we don't think WoW is a bad game. Clearly, the numbers speak for themselves. For ten million or so people, the formula works.

But it doesn't work for everybody. For some people, the focus on grind is the part of the formula that doesn't work... and GW is one of the alternatives that, at least when it was launched, didn't have that focus.

As for GW players complaining about grind in their game, even when that is much less than in WoW and similar games: The reason is because they've specifically chosen GW because it doesn't have the grind. Games like WoW did not include a grind-free nature in their advertising. Guild Wars did. Thus, everything that increases grinding-for-mechanical-edge is going back on one of the main selling points that caused some of us to choose GW over, say, WoW.

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

I dont complain about grind in any game other then guildwars. No other game has a 'title' where you have to kill everysingle enemy in the game. The character development in other games is what makes them an RPG. If you dont like or enjoy that, then dont play RPGs. I dont complain that FPS's are too short, or that they dont offer enough gameplay for my money when all I do is run around shooting things, I simply just dont play them.

If RPGs arent your cup of tea, then you dont have to play them. WoW and Lotro are quite simply the two most amazing role playing on the market today. Guild wars does not come near to competing with them for genuine role play gaming, but Guildwars does do its own unique skill based Action game thing very well.

Cacheelma · Mar 12, 2008, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

This statement makes you seem like an ignorant ass. Whether you are one is yet to be determined.

Here are just a few of the threads on the official WoW forum that talk about Guild Wars.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

These are from late 07 and 08. I wonder how many more have been made before these?

So yeah, WoW players do talk about Guild Wars.

If you CARE enough to read those 2 threads (instead of just searching for "Guild Wars" and posting it here to make a pointless reply), you'd see that.-

In the first thread (GW copying WoW), most replies say that "and Wow didn't copy other games?" or "WoW copies from both EQ and DnD" or "EQ copied from DnD" or "Nobody cares about GW".

You see, none of those DIRECTLY attacks GW in anyway.

And in the second thread (This isn't GW, this is PvE game), the OP is saying that WoW isn't a PvP-based game like GW, it's a PvE game. Most replies in the thread are either about "WoW PvP is good too" or "WoW has both PvE and PvP which is why it's a good game" or "Personally I don't like GW because I can't jump" (notice how it says "personally"? It's his own opinion and I don't think he tried to attack the game with that).

All in all neither of the threads is a GW-bashing thread in anyway.

Did I mention neither of them goes beyond 4th page?

bhavv · Mar 12, 2008, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Yes guildwars is a PVP game. That is where it excells over any other MMO on the market. But for players that dont like PVP and are purely interested in PVE (like me), other games are far better. They just have fees.